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LUCIFER
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: What if God? |
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What if God broke any of his commandments ... namely ...
Thou Shalt Not Lie ...
Thou Shalt Not Steal ...
and so on and soforth. What if God did not live by any of the laws of heaven or earth for the perfect existence or even a good existence? What does that mean where we have a "God" that did not uphold the very commandments that he commanded forth for the perfect and good life? What would that mean for those who followed blindly? What would it mean or what would it do for the perfect existence?
Lucifer~> |
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Independence and Indifference are wings which allow the heart to fly ...
LUCIFER~>
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Well...all I can say is this....the "10 commandments" are a general set of rules to live by in reference to human interactions with other humans....I see it as a specific situational set of rules to live by with other humans that is not only "moral" but is just the most logical way to live if one wants to have positive return....the "logical" aspect of it is far more important to whatever "moral" legalistic aspect one would attach to it.
As for GOD....i would personally hesitite to frame my idea of God in a human way like i see some doing...."God is against "evil" yet God "allows" evil to exist"
or
God is against murder yet God created the murderer, so he MUST endorse it at least right?
I mean, I think in an attempt to blame God for the choices we make, we sometimes try to judge God based on rules that only apply to the physical world....that isnt to say that God should be able to lie yet we can't lie....but certain God allows a person to BE lied to from time to time...or maybe it isnt that god "allows" or "disallows" something but that things just naturally happen based on cause and effect. |
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tarsustom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Sidebar.. hey fortwynt, your quote-question, "Is all the world jails and churches?" ... could be answered "Yes."
We have the Church with a capital C... living in a giant prison filled with (including us) death row inmates who have one remaining appeal to the Supreme Court.
The good thing being, the Church has Jesus as our Defense Attorney. 
If that idea could be condensed into a few words, I'm thinking it would make for a great T-shirt.  |
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You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| tarsustom wrote: |
Sidebar.. hey fortwynt, your quote-question, "Is all the world jails and churches?" ... could be answered "Yes."
We have the Church with a capital C... living in a giant prison filled with (including us) death row inmates who have one remaining appeal to the Supreme Court.
The good thing being, the Church has Jesus as our Defense Attorney.
If that idea could be condensed into a few words, I'm thinking it would make for a great T-shirt. |
Why does your eugenicist god put its creation on trial?  |
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"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Bear23
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: Re: What if God? |
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| LUCIFER wrote: |
What if God broke any of his commandments ... namely ...
Thou Shalt Not Lie ...
Thou Shalt Not Steal ...
and so on and soforth. What if God did not live by any of the laws of heaven or earth for the perfect existence or even a good existence? What does that mean where we have a "God" that did not uphold the very commandments that he commanded forth for the perfect and good life? What would that mean for those who followed blindly? What would it mean or what would it do for the perfect existence? |
I would have to say that wether or not god follows his own commandments, they are still good guidelines to follow to live a good, happy life.
However..... i should practice the last 6 of em (and #3 so as not to offend anyone) but i only practice 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10..... oh well.... only human. |
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Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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tarsustom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| Why does your eugenicist god put its creation on trial? |
The LORD will not put any person on trial until after they die.
Thus, the physical death is unavoidable by all parties. But my point relates to the spiritual death sentence that we are all on. After physical death comes the trial, the argument, the judgment, and the sentencing, should there be any.
It's all in the bible.
You insist that I give you information from the bible, but a quicker way of getting the information would be to read from the bible itself. 99% of what I say (which isn't obvious opinion and I try to make it so) to you is verifiable in Scripture. Get the New Living Translation, it's a great place to start!  |
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You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
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LUCIFER
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Since God is found in all religions, would karma affect in a way that creates a state of things or a state of things to come? Such as in a legalistic realm of the ruled and the rule of law and the ruler, would it apply to the governor as the governed. God not being seen as a human entitiy but being "the" the nature of things in this universe; would karma create a balance or would it engage a negative karma based on cause and effect?
Another question would be the recidivistic nature of incarnated sin and the mechanisms to deal with sin, such as hell. It is obvious that such religious endoctrins have created dogmas that influence society and the governors. Hell its self, which God created, can be seen as recidivic in nature which life adapts and in turn endoctrins into its very essence. This spawns forth a magnification of sin itself due to the adaptational qualities of life. This is exprienced in society as hell is being scene as a place of play. This is found in art, literature and society in general, for example ( the smiley face  or the index and pinky finger poised proudly as an expression) ... meaning we find the strengths and adapt it to our wants and needs.
If God does not follow the truth to a good, perfect or pristine life then would this create a karmic affect on the nature of God? To date we have bore witness to the confoundation of life such as retardation, disease and illness. To a further extent societal behaviour is based on what life breathes thereby creating a cycle unto the creator further compounding a sway in the balance in the nature of life for human kind. If God does not practice what he preaches then by a legal and philosophical view it is corrupt.
Lucifer~>
Last edited by LUCIFER on Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:52 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Independence and Indifference are wings which allow the heart to fly ...
LUCIFER~>
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Bear23
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| What religions that believe in karma believe in the 10 commandments? |
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_________________
Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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The 10 Commnds. make no real difference to me anyway, as Christ said one need not worry with them if one follow the two most important principles.
The rest would follow naturally.
basically if you do NOT do to others what you would NOT have done to YOU then commandments and laws make no difference and are empty and pointless....
it isnt even about religion, and i think that was Christs point, it's simply a matter of logic, or SHOULD be.
As for God following Gods rules....I think there are no rules. There is only logical circular cause and effect....I think it is the very NATURE of reality that this should be so....if one lies, cheats, steals, it is not as if GOD is sitting there with a queue backing up and clicks a button and doles out a punishment....it just HAPPENS because it MUST happen....call it karma, call it whatever.
To me, God as an infinite and omni-present being would NATURALLY move and behave in ways that we as limited created beings wouldnt even be able to rationalize.
For instance, I've heard it argued "how can a god of love send a person to hell"...and then therefore the reasoning followss either a: god doesnt exist or b: hell doesnt exist....or c: both of those things.
i think there is a fourth alternative there....that Hell, for one, isn't what some people think it is
(and truly it should be said that people DO vastly elaborate on the idea of "hell" when the bible doesnt really say some of those things...i.e. the idea that hell is a burning fire that exists right here and now, and when someone dies they either instantly go to heaven or hell, and that satan lives in hell with the demons, and that satan has horns and a pitchfork, and on and on....and angels have wings...oh i could go on all day)
and that heaven isn't what people think it is....i think both of these concepts are written about naturally by someone with a pretty limited scope on things (at the time). |
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Bear23
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| what do you think about hell, fortwynt? |
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_________________
Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Like Blake said, the heavens and hells are in the mind... |
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_________________
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"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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What does fortwynt think about hell?
As easy as it is to totally dismiss the concept of some form of punishment after death, I have to say I truly believe it MUST exist, though not in the form most people just seem to believe it does.
I firmly reject that there is a current place called hell, no fire, no brimstone, no devils, no demons living there.
Also i reject that one immediately goes to heaven or hell (see previous sentence) upon death...
It's like this (in my mind)....if there is a day of judgment for all of mankind, where humanity is raised from the dead and judged according to their works (as is stated), it is THIS DAY someone would go to hell, not upon death...although for the dead person maybe it would SEEM instantaeous if they were "out of it" or something the whole time...as for heaven, the bible says in the last day heaven descends from the sky to rest upon the earth....least thats what my bible says.
I personally think hell is separation from God...does it not say that the Devil and AntiChrist are cast alive into the lake of fire along with all those who followed them, and then that whole mess is cast into the bottomless pit?
Seems a far cry from an eternal place called hell as is described by various modern folks and religious "authorities". |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| "Do not wait for the Last Judgment. It takes place every day." - Albert Camus |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Bear23
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| fortwynt wrote: |
| It's like this (in my mind)....if there is a day of judgment for all of mankind, where humanity is raised from the dead and judged according to their works (as is stated), it is THIS DAY someone would go to hell, not upon death...although for the dead person maybe it would SEEM instantaeous if they were "out of it" or something the whole time...as for heaven, the bible says in the last day heaven descends from the sky to rest upon the earth....least thats what my bible says. |
Revelations is a dangerous book.....
| fortwynt wrote: |
| I personally think hell is separation from God...does it not say that the Devil and AntiChrist are cast alive into the lake of fire along with all those who followed them, and then that whole mess is cast into the bottomless pit? |
Actually, this thought has crossed my mind before (back when i actually believed in god). But it was just one of my possible theories..... |
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_________________
Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I agree Revelation is focused WAYY too much on...in fact Christ said something along the lines of "dont worry about the end, live every day as if it were the end"...makes sense to me.
Also, revelation is pretty well chocked full of metaphor....I have wrestled, myself, with the notion of anti-christ for literally years....i now believe the anti-christ references are speaking mostly of a sort of revival of the roman empire, but we could argue all night long about this verse and that in any case if we wanted....i think it may cycle back and forth between the "body" itself and the "head" so to speak.
There was a time where i really bought into all the elaborated "lore" about the endtimes and anti-christ.
I still believe that the catastrophes spoken of are literally going to occur but i am willing to admit that it is probably interpreted in a far different way than what the reality of the situation really is, even then. |
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