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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: What if God? |
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| LUCIFER wrote: |
What if God broke any of his commandments ... namely ...
Thou Shalt Not Lie ...
Thou Shalt Not Steal ...
and so on and soforth. What if God did not live by any of the laws of heaven or earth for the perfect existence or even a good existence? What does that mean where we have a "God" that did not uphold the very commandments that he commanded forth for the perfect and good life? What would that mean for those who followed blindly? What would it mean or what would it do for the perfect existence?
Lucifer~> |
Well it's hard to say since I don't "follow blindly". And I doubt anyone who is posting on this forum is going to admit to following blindly.
But if GOD breaks His own law? I figure He has a perfectly good reasong for doing so. |
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Bear23
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont think any one here IS following blindly. everyone (or so i hope...) has good reasons to believe what they do from their own experiences that they have encountered throughout their lives. |
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_________________
Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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Saturos
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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There must have been another reason for the Devil to oppose God other than jealousy and lust for power.
Because if someone is all powerful and you canīt do anything to it no matter what it is then why would Satan do anything in the first place?
I mean this if there was a God and Satan.
I donīt think Satan would be that stupid and neither God to have created such evil.
If he knows all then how can he have been tricked by Satan not knowing that it would happen? |
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The truth is hidden so well, itīs right infront of you... |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Saturos wrote: |
There must have been another reason for the Devil to oppose God other than jealousy and lust for power.
Because if someone is all powerful and you canīt do anything to it no matter what it is then why would Satan do anything in the first place?
I mean this if there was a God and Satan.
I donīt think Satan would be that stupid and neither God to have created such evil.
If he knows all then how can he have been tricked by Satan not knowing that it would happen? |
Stop making trouble with all those interesting questions saturos!  |
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"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Saturos
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah like I`m the worst thing that ever happened in this world   |
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The truth is hidden so well, itīs right infront of you... |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think even angels have free will, for one thing...I dont think God was tricked per se any more than God is tricked when we do something out of character...among other things I believe God is the perfect knowledge of the outcome of cause and effect...as we make a move, God knows the end of that move, but God doesn't seek to control our movement.
Im not so sure I buy into all the elaborated lore about the tale of Satans opposition to God and getting tossed out of heaven and all that poetic drama...COULD BE, i just dont worry too much about it....I just think the devil, if real, represents the embodiment of the height of vanity...vanity being the root of all sin....or selfishness rather. |
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screamzero
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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What the devils represent is apparent...look around and see pain. What G-d would seem to represent: the antithesis of such confusion. Whether He exists or not, solutions are needed. Who cares what names you give the concepts... their representative foils and suggested resolutions, respectively, are what needs to be understood. The core of the problems are in everyone's mirror.
SZ
The partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions.
Plato
II Cor. 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. |
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Questioner101
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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It does seem strange that a god would fight the earth, and all it's creatures, especially since "he" made it that way, in the first place.
But "he" makes his own rules and the human element of his creation must jump....
The Greeks had it right, the gods/goddesses use humans as pawns in a huge game....the more destruction and mayhem, the more they enjoy watching the chaos.... |
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Item7
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
God did break at least two of his commandments, Thou shalt not kill, and thou shall not covet. But hey God made the rules for mankind, not for himself. God is above all laws.
Interesting question though.
Item7 |
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tarsustom
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Saturos wrote: |
There must have been another reason for the Devil to oppose God other than jealousy and lust for power.
Because if someone is all powerful and you canīt do anything to it no matter what it is then why would Satan do anything in the first place? |
GREAT point! Imagine being so completely powerful that even legions of mighty angels stand by to take your order.
Satan's corrupt nature compelled him to do what he did. He convinced himself that he indeed was powerful enough to overthrow the Almighty.
Have you ever been so emotional about something that you lost control and lashed out at someone, and then had to apologize later for what you did? I think that gives us a tiny hint of what Satan was going through.
Now that he is defeated and awaits death, he is making it his obsession to prove that if he goes down, the rest of us should go down to because we are no better.
That's what led to the story of Job, and why the New Testament tells us that Satan is in heaven, as we speak, accusing all of us and making his case against us to God.
I real-life example of that in our behavior is when some people get fired. Instead of going quietly and with dignity, they try to make other employees look bad. The inevitable result everytime I've seen that happen is, the fired employee remains fired. They knew that before they tried to take everyone else down with them, but, they did it anyway... maybe it's a self-gratifying thing. Maybe Satan is trying to at least convince himself somehow, that he is no more deserving of hell than every human being that ever existed including the Church Body.
But as we all know, his fate is sealed. He's just doing what he can to muck up the process... in futile fashion. |
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You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
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Bear23
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Saturos wrote: |
| There must have been another reason for the Devil to oppose God other than jealousy and lust for power. |
When i went to church I learned it wasn't Lust for power that caused satan to be banished to hell. I learned it was Love and pride (and jealousy as previously mentioned). I learned that Satan loved God alot and when god created man he told satan to love man as much as he loved god. This is where pride comes in. Satan thought that creatures that lived in sin did not deserve the same love that God did and Satan became jealous that God could love them over him and be asked to serve man. |
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_________________
Proverbs 18:24- A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Proverbs 11:2- When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
-Bear |
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Not to split hairs, satan was never banished to hell.
Hell is not the home of satan...I'm really not sure where that idea first popped up, but that is not the case...at least not according to the bible.
Well there I go, asserting my "opinion".
Honestly, where did this idea come from that Hell is the home of satan and the demons? As much as I can tell, and I've read the bible many many times front to back and in every other order....Satan lives on the earth. |
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there would be no flowers at all, without a compost pile
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tarsustom
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Joined: Oct 11, 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Though it's a banned book, I would highly recommend the Book of Enoch. It goes through the whole fallen angel situation in immaculate detail. |
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You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
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fortwynt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Not to mention, once again this whole argument is boiling down to one thing....someone will invariably say "Why would God do something if God knew the outcome already....or....why would God make Satan to have a corrupt nature, if God knew what Satan was planning...if God knows everything, yadda yadda....obviously God endorses something if God allows it..."
well you get where im going.
all these arguments totally miss the point in my opinion. |
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tarsustom
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| fortwynt wrote: |
Not to split hairs, satan was never banished to hell.
Hell is not the home of satan...I'm really not sure where that idea first popped up, but that is not the case...at least not according to the bible.
Well there I go, asserting my "opinion".
Honestly, where did this idea come from that Hell is the home of satan and the demons? As much as I can tell, and I've read the bible many many times front to back and in every other order....Satan lives on the earth. |
The Bible says Satan is in heaven, real-time as in now, accusing all of us before God.
Hell, the lake of fire, the fiery pit... that's a place that has been created for Satan, his minions, and his children, to go when Jesus comes back and establishes His supremacy. |
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_________________
You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
- Okiejack |
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